I’ll be heading out later today to watch my Sun Devils send Ole Miss back east and advance to the College World Series. My hats off to those who are from the SEC and have to deal with “Hotty Toddy” regularly. So have at it folks.
Just a note to those who keep emailing me about my “attack on GeoCommons”. GeoCommons is irrelevant to this conversation and was just picked because Steve brought it up. A couple brought up the point that the Keyhole community and all those “pushpins” now in Google Earth as proof that this concept works. I think that those points are proof that this concept doesn’t work in “the real world”. Sure its great to put a pushpin on the Redlands Post Office and call it ESRI’s home office.
There is no authority in these kinds of applications and until that happens, I’ll continue to view it as just another recreational activity. It is the same issue facing Wikipedia.
At some point someone will figure this out and then we’ll be in business.
14 responses so far ↓
1
AuburnJim
// Jun 10, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Re: Hotty Toddy
Yes it is horrible, but at least you know that they lose tonight because that is what Ole Miss does.
2
Lefty
// Jun 10, 2007 at 1:56 pm
James, most of us agree with you. Its the uninformed that assume these tools will be of any use to anyone.
Personally its kind of like Manifold. It exists, people use it, but you feel sorry for them.
3
FantomPlanet
// Jun 10, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Uh-oh, James. ESPN notes on your ASU football alumni.
4
James Fee
// Jun 10, 2007 at 4:39 pm
@Fantom:
That is way old news. Anyway that was the previous coach. Our new coach will keep things under control!
*cough*
5
Mr Minton
// Jun 10, 2007 at 5:28 pm
James,
On the validity of Google Earth Pushpin locations and Wikipedia article accuracy and integrity, I share the following thought. I worked for an outfit that claimed they were the best at what they did. They weren’t. But, the claim was greeted by their target audience as a validation of this marketing-manufactured status within the marketplace. In other words, their philosophy was, by saying something is so and having decent credibility, their competition had to play catchup and counter this perception of “bestness”.
Although some Wikipedia articles are full of misinformation, student’s and now their parents use it as a definitive resource on just about anything. I am not sure if anyone has ever said “Wikipedia is the best”, but they uncomfortably occupy that role. As a teacher, it is an interesting challenge - is Wikipedia the “best” at what it does or is it so full of junk that one shouldn’t trust anything derived from it?
Enough said. Not even sure if this comment will peak your interest.
6
mfd
// Jun 11, 2007 at 5:32 am
Personally its kind of like Manifold. It exists, people use it, but you feel sorry for them.
Wow. What a giant leap forward. The unofficial ESRI apologist actually admits Manifold exists and has people who use it .
Never thought I’d see the day that Lefty acknowledges that people use Manifold.
7
JOD
// Jun 11, 2007 at 8:10 am
Bad data exists in many formats. Sometimes bad data has metadata, sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes the accuracy assessment mentioned in the metadata is B.S., sometimes it’s spot on, and sometimes there is no accuracy assessment. In the end it comes down to a trained analyst examining the information available and using it to make a decision. Data, even of dubious quality can often still be useful. Unfortunately even “trained GIS professionals” still take the approach that generating metadata is beneath them and it seems like the more degrees the person has the less likely it is that they are to generate metadata.
8
Caitlin
// Jun 11, 2007 at 8:32 am
The problem with generating metadata is that most people create data with the ideal of using it for themselves and sharing it is a distant thought. With so many GIS professionals bogged down with tasks it becomes so much easier to justify the lack of metadata, thinking “well, at least ***I*** know the limitations of the data”.
9
tom-tom
// Jun 11, 2007 at 9:25 am
..hate to say it sometimes comes down to a business decision,but .. when I worked as a contractor (to some goverment offices), it was very hard to justify billable hours to creating metadata, my clients usually just wanted Data (in whatever format they requested) and could care less about accuracy (”Thats for you GIS geeks, we just need results” - however misguided that statement is). They assume that if you’re working on some cumbersome documentation, you’re not working on THEIR project, but we knew we would have to justify our analysis later..and I know the irony that most requirements for metadata actually come from Federal/State requirements written in the contracts… but yet the actual “geospatial” shops rarely want to pay for the time to create it. Go figure!
10
timmy
// Jun 11, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Perhaps one could take an economic perspective regarding metadata… with a dash of professional altruism. Return on investment should be considered while the “return” can be manifested as legitimacy, legacy, utility, and so forth; not just profit. The benefit must be tangible otherwise the effort is arbitrary. That said just because one can develop a business case in favor of metadata doesn’t mean it should be done; unless the cost of generating the metadata is at least negated or surpassed by the benefit. I imagine that this is already occurring by intuitive default.
I wonder how the other industries are addressing this issue.
11
tom-tom
// Jun 12, 2007 at 3:14 am
@ timmy.. you’re right, there should be some professional altruism, but then there is reality.
i.e. your comment “The benefit must be tangible otherwise the effort is arbitrary”
I actually would love to see the day when a RFP states not only a GIS manager and 3-5 GIS Techs, but also a METADATA writer/manager as well!.. but with the state of county/state/fed government, I’m not holding my breath!
12
FroodCNB
// Jun 12, 2007 at 8:24 am
Concerning the pushpin on the post office… ESRI buildings lie immediately to the east, south and west (across the street) of the post office building shown in the image above. On a global scale, I’d say this pushpin was pretty darn close to where it should be.
13
Lefty
// Jun 12, 2007 at 8:29 am
Right, to be fair they did get it in California.
14
admin_papa
// Aug 29, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Good Day
Just wanted to share my new experience.
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Cheers,
Carl
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