Open Thread

April 24th, 2007 · 31 Comments · GIS

I’m going to be at the house today with a bunch of contractors (still have not moved it, but close). I’ll be off the computer all day so it seems like the perfect time for an open thread.

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31 responses so far ↓

1 Lefty // Apr 24, 2007 at 7:32 am

I’m a little worried about all this talk sticking bloat into KML metadata. I wouldn’t expect anything less of Ron Lake, but I’ve been hearing other talk about throwing crap into KML.

My hope is Google Earth ignoring all this crap and using metadata as it should be (and we’ve all been asking for).
2 Gretch // Apr 24, 2007 at 7:51 am

I agree Lefty (could be the first time). Why people seem to want to make a mess of a nice and simple KML file is beyond me.

GML has issues in adoption and sticking it into KML isn’t going to help anyone.
3 David Davis // Apr 24, 2007 at 7:53 am

I don’t understand why you’d want to stick GML in the metadata anyway. I’m not really sure how this all works, but if you stuck the GML outside the tags, wouldn’t that be just as good?
4 Chad // Apr 24, 2007 at 8:55 am

Nice? Simple? KML? Hmm, never thought I would see that on one line before..

I normally do WW XMLs.. and with doing some KMLs for two add-ons lately.. I just keep wondering.. “Why is this KML 5x’s larger than the WW XML?” “Why is there all this crap in here?” And “No wonder most KMLs don’t validate.”

I am going through a lot of pain and suffering to be nice to Google Earth users
5 KoS // Apr 24, 2007 at 9:57 am

Chad…you are such a kind soul. Suffering so others don’t have to. I’ll recommend your name for sainthood.

KoS
6 Chad // Apr 24, 2007 at 10:02 am

I’ll just take a lifetime suppy of beer instead.. or an apartment above the Samual Adams brewery
7 whowho // Apr 24, 2007 at 10:46 am

whats up with Cheryl Crow only using one toilet tissue square to stop global warming. She’s not as attractive as she used to be
8 KoS // Apr 24, 2007 at 11:53 am

hmm sorry can’t help you with Sam Adams, now if it was Coors I just may be able to help with the apartment in Golden.

@whowho…..I love Rosies response to Cheryl, for a change, she(Rosie) sounded rational.

KoS
9 Chad // Apr 24, 2007 at 1:04 pm

Coors would have to come with a good job offer so I could stomach the taste

Rosie rational? Isn’t that one of the signs of Ragnarök?
10 KoS // Apr 24, 2007 at 1:37 pm

Not sure what you mean by Ragnarok, Norse mythology? If you mean, the end of the world. It’s getting closer day-by-day. Mark 2012 on your calendars.

I feel ya, I don’t care too much for Coors either. There was a time when we couldn’t buy it here. We would have to drive to Illinois to get any. I only drank it a few times. At the time, it was the cool thing to do. It impressed the ladies having the only “party-ball” in town.

KoS
11 J-Frigle // Apr 24, 2007 at 2:32 pm

“The Merge command could not be completed”

Compared to some things perhaps Rosie approaches the rational side of the scale.
12 Bsock // Apr 24, 2007 at 3:04 pm

Anyone have any good resources/websites/etc. for standardizing map layouts, symbology, folder hierarchy (both project and data - we haven’t moved to SDE yet so I’m still dealing with Personal GDB’s and File GDB’s)? I’ve been searching the web for quite a while and can’t seem to find anything that really defines the best practices. We just started a GIS department at my company and an organizational structure would really help out. Thanks!
13 brian // Apr 25, 2007 at 5:48 am

Bsock-
esri has data models on their support site that could be helpful in structuring your data.
14 Bsock // Apr 25, 2007 at 6:51 am

Thanks, but what they have is a data model for a base map and we have 4 different departments (Engineering, Planning, Landscape Architecture, and Survey). Although a useful tool, it’s not exactly what I’m looking for. I appreciate the feedback though.
15 Guido From Boston // Apr 25, 2007 at 6:55 am

I have been also trying to figure out good ways to store data and projects. Data Models are a little to specific to the industries that they are made for. I have been work on many different types of projects and don’t’ want to setup different file/folder structures.

I use the following:
gis/
gis/projects
gis/data
gis/graphics

‘projects’ is for mxd files, I use sub folders by date to determine which meeting/deadline I am preparing for.

‘data’ is organized by data caterory (water/elev/soil/imagery) and then by source if needed

‘graphics’ is organized the same as projects and shares similar file names, this makes it easy to track the output/maps so that if someone asks me to reproduce a map with small changes I can trace it back to it’s origin. Most of the time this folder is kept outside so as not to scare off non-technical people with the awesome collection of GIS data.
16 Bsock // Apr 25, 2007 at 7:26 am

I completely agree that the data models are very industry specific. I use a similar file strucutre for my projects:

GIS/
GIS/MXD
GIS/PDF
GIS/Submittal (contains zip files submitted to client or gov. agency for review)

MXD stores all project data such as MXD’s, rasters, spreadsheets, shapefiles, geodatabases, etc.

PDF simply stores just PDF’s so I can email them or other users can have access to them if I am not available.

As for the motherload of GIS data I have for Florida (our company is based in Tampa), I use a structure like this:

Data/
Data/ESRI
Data/Federal/Agency
Data/State/Agency/Category
Data/State/County/Category
Imagery/
Tools/ (ArcScripts, toolboxes, etc.)

My County categories include: (and I probably have too many)
-Business (commercial/retail locations)
-Emergency (evacuation routes/zones, etc.)
-Environmental (wildlife, brownfields, habitats)
-Hydro (anything to do with water/stormwater)
-Planning (zoning, land use, planning districts)
-Political (administrative boundaries)
-Property (property boundaries)
-Public Works (utility pipes, lines, etc.)
-Services (police, fire stations, etc.)
-Topography (anything to do with hypsography)
-Transportation

After reviewing the BaseMap data model, I think I can merge some of these groups together, however, I’m really interested in seeing how other people organize all of their data. I’m also interested in how they have standardized their page layouts to make for efficient and quick mapmaking with little interaction. Maybe James will start a new thread? Thanks for your input! Perhaps it’s time for us to move to SDE…..
17 Jack Dangermond // Apr 25, 2007 at 10:24 am

I like cheese. I like it a lot.
18 Jack Dangermond // Apr 25, 2007 at 10:35 am

Client/
Client/Project/
Client/Project/ProjectManagement/
Client/Project/ProjectManagement/Docs/
Client/Project/ProjectManagement/Docs/RFQ/
Client/Project/ProjectManagement/Docs/Proposal/
Client/Project/ProjectManagement/Docs/ProjectScope/
Client/Project/ProjectManagement/Docs/Contract/
Client/Project/ProjectManagement/Docs/Correspondence/
Client/Project/ProjectManagement/Budget/
Client/Project/ProjectManagement/Budget/FeeEstimate/
Client/Project/ProjectManagement/Budget/Invoices/
Client/Project/GIS/
Client/Project/GIS/MXD/
Client/Project/GIS/MXD/Exports/
Client/Project/GIS/AppDev/
Client/Project/GIS/Data/
Client/Project/GIS/Data/Client/
Client/Project/GIS/Data/ProjectDerived/
Client/Project/GIS/Data/3rdParty/
Client/Project/GIS/Deliverables/

We generally stick to this and add folders as need following the same general “logic”.
19 TopoSapper // Apr 25, 2007 at 11:35 am

Getting ready to start my Master’s Thesis: Investigating the Exploitation of Web Based and Open Source Imagery
An ever increasing amount of imagery is being made available on the web, with Google Earth and Microsoft Virtaul Earth being well known examples. It is known that insurgents and terrorists have been using such resources to help them target NATO troops in Iraq and possibly other theatres (including mainland USA and UK). As well as better understanding the problem posed by terrorists using such resorces, perhaps the military Geo community should also start using it (although we talk about the proliferation of imagery available to our forces, it is not always readily available to the troops on the ground). This project would investigate the issues (legal, accuracy, temporal etc), the ease with which such imagery can be ingested into exploitation software(into packages such as ERDAS, ArcMap etc) and how it can be exploited.

Any comments, suggested areas of exploration, or threads that may need addressing in the paper?

BTW, this is being done in a military environment but all aspects of the issue will be considered.

Thanks
20 KoS // Apr 25, 2007 at 2:16 pm

Toposapper…..one place to check out is ogle-earth blog. There has been a few posts concerning those issues.

I wanted to comment on NATO. I don’t think NATO is offically in Iraq as an organization. Individual nations who are part of NATO are in Iraq, but not under the banner of NATO. They are considered coalition partners, which is seperate from NATO.

NATO is offically in Afganistan as an organization. Member nations have been sending troops under the NATO umbrella.

KoS
21 Chad // Apr 25, 2007 at 2:24 pm

Well, the gist I got from the British Military when I gave my Asymmetrical Warfare presentation last month was they didn’t like the high res images being so current of the area.
22 Gretchen // Apr 25, 2007 at 2:28 pm

Bsock-
I’ve got a Projects folder with a subfolder for each project (by project name) and one extra subfolder titled “SharedData.” In each project subfolder I have at least these subs:
ArcProjects, Data, Exports, Invoices, Maps, Metadata, Presentations, StatementofWork, TempGISfiles, TimeLog, and usually several others unique to the project such as Literature, Research, Meetings, Extensions, etc.
23 mcorona // Apr 25, 2007 at 2:36 pm

hi I’m a student at college currently taking a GIS course. I have a project for class and was wondering if you could help me. For a project we will be making a map and was wondering if you could guide me in the direction as to what all needs to be shown on an adequete map. Hope to hear from you soon.
Miriam
24 TopoSapper // Apr 25, 2007 at 2:51 pm

@KoS & Chad - Thanks. Just getting started and haven’t even narrowed the scope of this yet but trying to see what others think are key areas. KoS is right, NATO may be the wrong term. Probably should stick with coalition forces.
25 TopoSapper // Apr 25, 2007 at 2:55 pm

@mcorona
what needs to be shown on the map depends on what the customer wants to see or what you want the customer to see. The central theme of the ‘map’ should stand out and be the first thing the customer sees (ie figural). If the map is a street map of your home town, focus on the roads and make other info part of the background. If the map is to show hot spots of avian bird flu, those hot spots should stand out. Does this help?
26 mcorona // Apr 25, 2007 at 5:26 pm

great!! thanks for the input and your detailed help.
27 Petz // Apr 27, 2007 at 6:30 am

Wow 26 posts and no mention of Man***** yet.
28 Mark // Apr 27, 2007 at 9:55 am

Where’s Dimitri when you need him?!
29 Pseudonode // Apr 30, 2007 at 9:42 am

We use primarily a thematic-based top-level structure for our statewide GIS Library data storage (currently around 2.5 terabytes). It was hashed-out over many years of internal discussion and works fairly well. The California Spatial Information Library (CaSIL - http://gis.ca.gov) uses a similar structure internally.

- Cultural (cultural features, geographic names, cities, land use, etc.)

- Elevation (land elevations and water depths, contours, slope, hillshades/relief, etc.)

- Geodetic (control points, UTM and State Plane zones)

- Geopolitical (political boundaries, administrative districts, etc.)

- Hydrography (surface waters, streams, watersheds, canals, etc.)

- Land_Ownership (ownership and parcel boundaries, PLSS, GCDB, etc.)

- Maps (scanned map images and indexes, topo maps-DRGs, nautical charts, recreation maps)

- Natural_Resources (environmental base data, land cover, vegetation, ecological regions, climate, geology, soils, wildlife)

- Projects_Groups_Misc (projects, groups, and collections of related data, atlases, etc.)

- Remote_Sensing (aerial photography, satellite imagery)

- Transportation (roads, railways, pipelines, ports, airports)

- User_Tools (GIS Library tools and utilities, org charts, logos, guideline and help documents, raster/image catalogs)

We originally based our structure on the FGDC “Framework” data categories, but found some areas missing from that structure, or some of their categories difficult to interpret for our users (i.e. Cadastral).

I’ve never understood why some folks put imagery in its own separate category. Seems better to categorize data thematically first, regardless of the format. Since there’s more and more types of imagery being produced (scanned topo maps, parcel maps, aerial photography, shaded relief, etc.), it seems you’d just have to thematically divide it up anyway within an imagery category, so why not just categorize all data thematically from the start regardless of format (raster, vector, etc.).
30 Jojo // Apr 30, 2007 at 10:28 am

Where’s Dimitri when you need him?!

he’s meeting with the 5 existing Manifold users. They may not be doing much of anything useful, but at least they think highly of themselves.

I should go check that Manifold blog for any activity…
…looks like James didn’t need any “freeing from ESRI” afterall
31 Chris C. // Apr 30, 2007 at 11:06 am

In the voice of that other famous James..

Must…Not…Feed…The…Troll.