I’ve decided to just throw everything out and begin with the basics of Manifold. The first thing I think would be to create a simple map. When you open up Manifold 7x you see the following:
The project tab on the right is somewhat like the “Solution Explorer” in Visual Studio, but a little different. You cannot drag and drop files onto project area which to me was quite restricting. I would have loved to just grab a ton of shapefiles and drop them right there, but you have to use a different method to add a shapefile. Manifold calls these datalayers “Drawings“. I won’t get too much into what you can do with drawings as the help does a pretty good job of that, but think of each drawing as a dataset. If you have 20 GIS layers in your project, you’d have at least that many drawings and images (images are rasters in Manifold). Because you can’t drag and drop datasets into Manifold, you have to use the import function.
In this case you see that I choose to import a drawing, but you have other choices too. Now you browse to where you shapefile is located and choose the type of file below. I found this very counter intuitive as I would have though the default would be all possible drawing files rather than having to choose just one. Microsoft Office has an “all files” option and I would have though Manifold would too. So to see shapefiles, you have to choose the type below. One other thing that annoyed me about this import was that it kept dropping me back into My Documents. If all your files are in one directory this isn’t a problem, but after I add a shapefile I have to go back to the import and start all over again. When you find the shapefile you want, you get some options to specify and then it you have your drawing.
You’ll see below how the drawing looks after the shapefile was imported. The toolbars give you access to the colors and other symbology that you might want to set. Repeat these steps for every dataset you want to bring into Manifold.
Now if you want to make a map with these drawings, you create a new map in the project.
You then choose the drawings (or other types) that you want to see in this map, pretty straightforward.
Finally you see your new map showing all the drawing files you selected. Again you make changes to the map by using the toolbars. One thing what was a little counterintuitive was changing the order of the drawings. Those tabs at the bottom can be moved around like the worksheets in Excel. The one to the left is on the “top” and the one on the right is on the “bottom”. Logically I’d say that this should be vertical as every drawing program I know does it this way.
Now to create a “layout” you’ll need to right click on the map you wish to produce and choose “layout”
Again you get to set some options.
And then you get the layout view. The toolbar gives you the option of scalebars, north arrows, graphic lines, text, etc. Then all you have to do is right click and print.
Now I’ll be honest, this have been very difficult for me coming from an Autocad/Arcinfo background. Things are intuitive to me at all. But to be fair, neither was ArcView 2 when it first arrived. With work I’m sure this would all become second nature, but to me I felt like banging my head though my desk. I don’t really care too much about creating printable maps in Manifold as that isn’t what is interesting me. I’m going to start delving deeper into some of the analysis and KML export tools to see what one can do with this product.
DISCLOSURE – This copy of Manifold was provided to me by Manifold for evaluation.
51 Comments
‘One other thing that annoyed me about this import was that it kept dropping me back into My Documents. ‘
Under the menu – Tools, select Options, then pick File Locations, replace the path name with a . (dot) for current folder.
@ Chris: That is great to know. I set my default directory to the top level directory of where most of my GIS data lives, but also found it very annoying to have to keep navigating back to the same folder over and over to import multiple files.
I have to admit there were a lot of things like that for me at the start of using Manifold – in my experience it was lack of my understanding of the program and not a feature missing from Manifold.
Look at the Tools – Options Help page, there is a bunch of settings that can be tailored to the user needs – 2 other settings come to my mind – in Miscellaneous make sure Transfer Rules for new colmns is checked and in the Status bar for Current Location select projected coordinates.
I think those three items, including file locations, are the first things I set when I install Manifold on a new machine.
James, Thanks for posting this. I think this post is a better intro on how to get started with Mainfold than anything in thier documentation. I also couldn’t agree with you more about wanting to put my head through the desk when 1st using Manifold. Unlike you I am extremely interested in producing nice cartographic output. The thing I liked least was the symbolization & styling of the layers. It was VERY similiar to AV3.x. Compare this to UDig’s styling and symbolization. UDig is much closer to ArcMap in this area, and in some ways a little bit nicer. So for a product that claims to be using the latest & greatest powers of the .Net platform for mapping, modeling, and photo manipulation; it’s styling looks a lot like VB6 era stuff. To be fair, AV3 and ArcGIS 8-9, are not very intuitive either. Why oh why do I have to go to ArcCatalog to make a new shapefile/PGDB in ArcGIS. The “New Shapefile” add-in was the 1st thing I downloaded for ArcGIS 8x when we started converting over to it. I can’t count the number of hours I’ve spent with new users to ArcGIS slowly walking them through similar intial steps as you have done with Manifold and have them look even more confused than when they sat down in front of the computer.
I’m glad to see that the one thing that I didn’t like about the Manifold interface also doesn’t sit well with James. Having the drawings within a map as tabs along the bottom just doesn’t work. I’m aware that Manifold is trying to follow MS interface standards here (as James points out I think it’s modeled after Excel), but this abstraction fails badly. It’s not intuitive (and for some international users it’s just plain backwards), it’s contrary to every drawing program I’ve ever used and it’s not functional. If you have 10 drawings (especially if the names are long) you end up scrolling back and forth all the time. Other than that though I personally didn’t have a hard time understanding Manifold interface and working with it. In fact you might notice that the default interface / work flow process in UDig is very similar, but they do stack drawings / layers vertically in their maps. I am surprised that Manifold hasn’t added ‘Drag & Drop’ seeing as it’s used heavily in most Windows applications. Add that and and option to stack drawings vertically and I wouldn’t have much to complain about.
Drawings? Every best-of-breed (or wanna-be) app calls these things “layers”. Why is it so important to be different?
James, Cam, and Matt:
a little bit of RTFM is the way the go here
Just (somewhat) joking.
Chris C was right on wrt the Tools->Options function. Knowing how to set things up correctly is key. By not knowing this, you have wasted many minutes/hours using a sub-optimal configuration for Manifold.
As for the interface Cam, the tabs on the bottom are just one (convenient) way to look at the layers in a map. But, you can go to View->Panes->Layers to get a dock-able layers pane – I never use this because I like working with the tabs better, go figure. Also, you can drag and drop components into a Map window.
Sean – you are incorrect here. Drawings are vector. Surfaces are raster, and Images are raster. What is a layer according to your definition? A layer in Manifold is a “component” (which can be a drawing, surface, or image) that can be put together into a map interface. BTW, the most common vector format in existance is the .dwg – its not called an AutoCAD shapefile, coverage, or anything else. Its called an AutoCAD drawing. Thats what the majority of the world understands. Just think about the idea of “coverage”. That was introduced to GIS people many years ago. Most non-ESRI people don’t get “coverage” as a concept.
In fairness, however, it would be pretty difficult to use ArcGIS cold, without some background. So, you guys aren’t too far off base having just gotten started with Manifold.
Probably the best way to fast-track learning the product is to go through the gisadvisor.com training videos. I still return back to it, not to go through the exercises anymore, but to just watch the video to pick up on new things.
To be different is to be better than the rest. Also keep in mind that “Standards are good, everyone should have one”.
I’d just love to be able to drag and drop. It is a learning curve so keep that in mind with my post. As I said the other day, the “ESRI/Autodesk” method is the one I’m familiar with and right or wrong that is where I am.
I can totally see someone who is used to Manifold being lost in all the other packages too.
We have multiple drives that our GIS data resides on (not my choice believe me) so this is a major hassle. Microsoft Office defaults to My Documents on the first open/save, but after it goes to the last folder access. That would be the logical method for any Microsoft Office type application like Manifold.
I’m trying to be fair, not comparing Manifold to ArcGIS or Autocad, but to a standard Windows application. Getting data into Manifold at least is a bottleneck for me.
That said, Manifold 7x is FAST. It is a speed demon compared to ArcMap or even Autocad 2007.
Fast doing what? I’ve not had the same experience with large featuresets. However it is screaming fast at drawing rasters esp. ECW compared to ArcMap.
The program responds quickly.
The biggest problem I’ve run into speed wise is when I add a lot of data to the project. The more data, the slower it gets.
‘Microsoft Office defaults to My Documents on the first open/save, but after it goes to the last folder access.’
James – you did look at my first suggestion to got to Options – File Locations?
Justin…
I didn’t know about the dockable layers panel. My experience with Manifold was back with version 6 so I may be a little behind the times.
I must admit it took me a little while to understand ‘drawings’ within Manifold as well. AutoCAD Drawings are called ‘drawings’ for 2 reasons. First off they are created from multiple layers and secondly because they aren’t always geo-reference (a AutoCAD drawing of a valve for instance). If they were always geo-referenced I would assume they would called either maps / models. Even an AutoCAD draftsperson wouldn’t follow the meaning of a ‘drawing’ in Manifold because really an AutoCAD drawing is more like a Manifold Map. Your point about RTFM is well taken as am I sure just about any GIS person would have no problem grasping what they are trying to get at.
Chris C…. I think James’ point it that a setting shouldn’t be required. Going to the last directory accessed is pretty much a MS standard behaviour.
@Chris C.
Yea, but that still means I’d have to drill down sometimes 8 to 10 folders. Our file structure has to match our clients so I’m stuck emulating their servers and it becomes quite a bit of work. We have so many different clients that the GIS is spread out over 4 servers. Setting the default to “My Computer” much be the best for me.
That said drag and drop is the perfect solution as I can use Windows Explorer to navigate.
Maybe I’m missing something here, but you can set the default open and save folder by setting the ‘Start in:’ in the Windows shortcut.
What would you set it to? I can think of about 1000 paths that might be needed over the course of a year at least at my office.
Is this for every project or project specific? If it is project specific then it is a good feature, if not it is almost worthless.
I own both Manifold 7.0 and ArcGIS 9.2.
One task that ArcGIS beats Manifold hands down is georegistering images. Manifold is slow and hakward at this.
TS
Matt, again, the manual has information about improving system performance. The training videos also have an entire section on how to optimize things like that.
yes, but don’t beat yourself over the head about it. The manual is long. And, its hard to know where to look for things. I’m more visual, thats why I like the video training. And, having someone who knows what they are doing and showing me is much easier too.
Also Cam, the layers pane was in 6.0 I believe. But, don’t beat yourself up over that either. There is always something new to learn in Manifold. Just like years ago I would discover some new command in ArcInfo workstation, even though I thought I was an expert at it.
The videos are a turn off for me. I tried them, but I just don’t learn that way. I loved the old ArcInfo 5 & 6 manuals we used to have. Those were great, now companies just don’t produce manuals and I’m just lost.
ESRI is among the worst at this now.
I have a hard time hiring people who have deep exposure to ESRI or MapInfo to use Manifold–I would honestly rather start with somebody who conceptually understands GIS but limited experience–that is how counterintuitive it can be. But….once you come up the learning curve you begin to see how much easier Manifold is (similar to changing from PC to Mac)
My company shifted to Manifold last year from Mapinfo and I’ll be honest, I haven’t enjoyed it. I’m actually looking for a new job because I feel me skill set is being depreciated. Most of the new jobs seem to be for ESRI software (well at least the ones that are being advertised in our paper) and I really can’t point to any experience other than school.
I was at a local GIS meeting and someone asked what version of software I used and I said Manifold 7x and no one knew what I was talking about. Guess I was hanging out with the wrong crowd.
Are you kidding me? THAT is the wonderful Manifold interface? Boy you’d have to really twist my arm to move to that by choice.
Oh and I always love that the first response from any Manifold user to someone who says something wrong with Manifold is “it isn’t the software, but the users misunderstanding”.
To me that says problem with the software.
I have a couple of hundred projects for various clients stored on multiple servers in various locations. I open Manifold drill down to my project folder and open the Map file, now if I want to import data relating to the project I use import/link and I see my current project folder, I then may have to navigate up or down a few folders to get the data, but I find it without starting from My documents every time.
Are you saying ESRI products don’t work that way – if so how do they do it better?
your experience is your experience. i use GIS but i’m not in the GIS industry–for me, a GIS simply serves to access spatial data. What gets done with the spatial data (in my business) has nothing to do with GIS. It works for me and I’m happy–much cheaper, faster and flexible than other tools
I drag and drop from Explorer. I rarely use the “add data” button. I guess I use ArcCatalog also, but it too is an explorer type application.
I’m working on a project in San Diego. I might have to deal with these two paths to data:
p:\gis\SANDAG\Hydrology\Hyd_Basins\Hyd_Basins.shp
and
g:\6232\gis\data\aerials\xxxxx\xxxxx\xxxxx\may2003\xxxxx.SID (those x’s are names I don’t want to publish).
If some data is in one path and some in the other, I have to basically navigate all the way back up and back down. To me that is irrelevant in a way because I’d rather just drag and drop right on the projects tab.
@ian:
I’ve always said use the tools that best fit your workflow. In the end it doesn’t matter if some GIS Analyst from some city in some state swears by ArcView because that won’t help you work better.
Using ESRI won’t get you more dates and using Manifold might leave more money in your wallet to spend on your date.
I see what you mean now, if I had to do that frequently then I agree the current method would suck and drag and drop would be the best solution.
I do understand that Manifold isn’t aimed at the GIS pro the same way Arcinfo is. For those who need 80% of the functionality at 20% of the price (I’ll even give you 10%), Manifold probably fits the bill.
Okay James let’s get past the opening and importing of files – could be improved, what’s next?
REVISION: I actually meant QGIS not UDig as an example of a better symbolization method than Manifold, and nearly on par with ArcMap.
Chris, other than import the files there really isn’t anything that really aggravated me. Some of the stuff is way different than I’m used to, but that is OK. None of it really would affect workflows so I’m don’t have much to say beyond my comments in the post. Sure if you want me to nitpick I probably could, but most of what I would say is just personal preference and I can see it argued both way (drag and drop is mandatory so I made a big deal).
I want to focus more on the real features of Manifold next week, making simple maps is so boring.
James, thanks for showing me some of Manifold’s inner workings. I had no idea how it worked and why some people loved it and why some hated it.
Ok, I have got Manifold versions 5 and 6 and I tried it for several months. I also gave it to a recent GIS masters graduate to see if a fresh person with extensive Microsoft experience (v my Unix) would take to it. We don’t use it any more. I will be interested when James gets to more meaty problems. What about dropping a few fields, rename them, and classify a character field with random contrasting colours? Try splitting a simple line. Load in a GPS track and edit it. Turn the track into a single line, fill in the gaps. There must be worse show-stoppers than drag-and-drop. For me at the time it was no datum transforms using NTv2, now fixed in 7. But there is no upgrade from 6 (only 6.5) so I am unlikely to try again soon now that geoprocessing with Python has finally started to work in 9.2
KimO, If you paid the whopping $50 for the upgrade to 6.5, most, if not all, of your gripes would have been resolved.
The upgrades to 7 and 7x, which introduced DBMS and 64 bit versions, amongst many other enhancements, have been free to 6.5 users.
That may be so, but I was not actively using it at the time of the offer, so my slowness will cost me any opportunity for future upgrades, and it has cost Manifold a potential user. I have read the invective against me (a 6.0 user) on their site justifying their policy. A pity really, because I would have paid them a “maintenance fee” recently to upgrade as a subsidy just to keep them solvent – even if I don’t use it! Just another mis-step in the marketing department. I think Manifold does have a place, and I have recommended it to others to try for themselves. Why do they go out of the way to alienate their own users?
I am amused by the mis-comparisons that pour out. We all know that ArcGIS has a 9.2 version now that should be the basis for comparing Manifold 7.x
But still there are other issues of scaleability that were difficult for me to handle without incurring other costs such as SQLServer. Why does noone mention the object data storage in the project file? You have to copy all the data into each project – like a Word document. I know there are now “links” so how well does that work James? What does it look like in a database? A single blob, or real tables of features? (You see I can’t try it now for myself, Dimitri)
May I suggest that you raise your questions on the Manifold’s community site at:
http://forum.manifold.net
Provided you are looking for answers, of course, and are not just airing your frustrations.
I can sympathize with yours having no upgrade path, but, let’s face it, you can easily jump back on the Manifold bandwagon and save a lot of money compared to purchasing other products. True, the upgrade would have saved you a few more bucks over what you were already saving, but not being able to use the upgrade does not look like a good reason to “take your toys and leave the playground” so to speak. If you are not sure whether or not Manifold can fulfill your needs, please go ahead and find out. But don’t lie to yourself that you are switching because you did not get the upgrade at a discount.
Peace. See you on the community site.
OMG, this interface is in the stone ages! Do they not believe in toolbars? Having to go back through that menu tree is so inefficient!
A “plus” icon on the toolbar would be nice, but maybe that is too much like ESRI/QGIS/etc.
The most elegant way would be to have drag and drop.
you do realize that once you issue a file->import, you can select all the files in a directory.
Justin, I do realize that, but I don’t have all my files in one directory or even on one server.
Why are Manifold users so hostile? Even to people who are actively trying to use the software?
Part of what makes a software package appealing to me is the user support and community surrounding the software. ESRI software, for instance, has a lot of negatives, but the user community has always been very open and helpful. In comparison, the apparent nastiness of the Manifold community just turns me right off…
James, have you tried making shortcuts to the directories that you need? I have to work with a ridiculously long directory structure, and just keep a folder of shortcuts to the directories I have to access most. Forgive me if that’s something you’ve already tried. I don’t have Manifold, but it seems like it should use regular windows/rules for the file tree.
Jesse L. – I think there are plenty of nastiness coming from both sides – from a minority of users. To say all Manifold users are being nasty is unfair – particularly if your basing your comments on this blog alone.
@ Chris C – I don’t have exact statistics on whose nasty and whose not, but that’s the gut feeling I get after having read as much as I can about Manifold. I’m an ESRI user (but no ESRI-lover), and I’ve been very curious about Manifold as a viable option, but the user community in general seems extremely defensive.
I am sorry if this will sound off-putting in the least bit but the #1 site to engage with the Manifold user community is forum.manifold.net, not this blog. If you want to know more about Manifold, forum.manifold.net is definitely the place to go.
Drag and drop would work if storing data in shapefiles (for example) was a good idea. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense to use an interchange format for storing data. (Arguable for images/surfaces given the n^2 scale).
I can relate to many of the comments posted here regarding the frustration of learning Manifold (coming from an ESRI background) and the varying responses from the Manifold community (I’ve had both very positive and just plain nasty). In the end, though, Manifold does what I need it to do, and for less than $300 I was able to purchase a site license for my entire university! The students I teach don’t have any more difficulty learning the basics of Manifold than they would learning ArcGIS (probably less, in fact).
Hello
You can drag&drop any Manifold native file from the Explorer into the Project Pane. You cannot do the same with a SHP file. That it’s normal because you are importing from another format. A question: You can drag&drop to the ArcGIS external format files?
Regards
If ArcGIS can read it, you can drag and drop it (no matter if its an ESRI file or not).
Ok. I’ve asked because I never work with arcGIS. I’ve work with MapInfo Professional for 10 years and after that I migrate to Manifold. And in this, the last version of MapInfo that I work with (the 6.5), we have also to import what is from another format.
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[...] 1. Drag and drop inside Manifold – not following on from James’ thread, but more internal to Manifold – I’d like to be able drag multiple Drawings/Images/Surfaces/Maps/Folders (folders becoming sub-folders) into Folders or into another Map file. [...]
[...] Drag and drop inside Manifold – not following on from James’ thread, but more internal to Manifold – I’d like to be able drag multiple [...]
[...] Creating a Simple Map in Manifold 7.x On James Fee’s blog he illustratrates the steps needed to create a simple map using Manifold. Particulary interesting is the running commentary on his experience in using this software. Current ESRI software users that are trying out Manifold will be able to relate to his reaction to using Manifold. [...]