I’ve seen quite a few people comparing AGX to GE and I think many are missing the point. ESRI has been saying that they view the mission of AGX as quite different as that of Google Earth or Virtual Earth 3D. From the ArcGIS Explorer “homepage”:
ArcGIS Explorer is a lightweight desktop client for ArcGIS Server. It can be used to access, integrate, and utilize GIS services, geographic content, and other Web services. ArcGIS Explorer can also be used with a variety of other GIS services such as those published using ArcIMS, ArcWeb Services, Web Map Services (WMS), and other Web services. In addition, ArcGIS Explorer can use local data such as shapefiles, file geodatabases, KML, JPEG 2000, GeoTIFF, MrSID, IMG, and other image formats.
I know most of you realize this, but lets keep that all in perspective when we start worrying about if ESRI can find 10 Downing Street. Yes, AGX is a 3D Globe. Yes it looks and acts like Google Earth. Yes SOME people at ESRI have been using the words “Google Earth Killer” in the past. That doesn’t change AGX’s mission as a GIS browser. If you want 10 Downing Street in AGX, give the Ordnance Survey a call or just bug this man to offer up their datasets as a 3D Globe.
ESRI has given GIS Professionals the tools to create their own 3D globes and serve them up to clients. We’ve been asking for these for years so now it is time to put up or shut up. ArcGIS Explorer is only as good as the datasets inside and ESRI has some starter services for us to use, but they are just starting points. Lets not lose perspective here that AGX has been out in the public for 2 or 3 days, while Google Earth has been out for years now. Sure this is a “Final Release”, but in reality it is a beta. So in that frame of mind, test it with ArcIMS, ArcGIS Server, WMS Services, KML, Shapefiles, file geodatabases, JPEG 2000, GeoTIFF, MrSID, IMG and other formats it supports. Let ESRI know in their forums what is working and what isn’t working. Let them know that you want to see ArcSDE and Personal Geodatabase support if that is important to you.
I was joking around with the Matterhorn example because Stefan asked about it, but my point in that post was someone should offer up a ArcGIS Server service that could fix the Matterhorn very easy and that is the spirit of ArcGIS Explorer. It has many faults right now, don’t get me wrong. But lets work at getting it right as a GIS browser and leave the sightseeing to GE and VE.
27 responses so far ↓
1
chaz
// Nov 30, 2006 at 9:52 am
well said.
2
Anon
// Nov 30, 2006 at 9:53 am
Why is it James that you have to write this and not ESRI? Frankly I agree with your statements, but the fact that YOU are writing them makes me wonder about the direction at ESRI.
3
av8tor
// Nov 30, 2006 at 10:05 am
As always James, you are right on the top of this. I couldn’t have said it better.
ESRI has their problems with communication with users outside of the ESRI Forums, but one would expect them to post something there on this issue.
4
mark
// Nov 30, 2006 at 10:11 am
If a server is hosting these new 3d maps is 3danalyst required to view them? If not I would love to see an example of one, if 3d analyst is required then there is no chance ESRI will be able to compete with GE.
5
James Fee
// Nov 30, 2006 at 10:21 am
Yes you need 3D extension to serve up Globe Services.
I don’t think the cost is that great compared to the cost of AGS so if you are already using AGS, the addition of the 3D extension is not that much. I mean what is $2.5K on top of $10K? If the added benefit of 3D adds to the reasons why you are using AGS, then it makes sense. If the business case is not there, then why would one be using AGS in the first place?
Yes small companies won’t be biting, but that is why people should be testing out the WMS services and making sure ESRI is supporting WMS correctly as you can overlay 2D web services on the globe.
6
Cam W.
// Nov 30, 2006 at 10:34 am
James… I’m not sure you answered Mark’s question. He asked … is 3d analyst required to view them.. You mention that a 3D analyst is required to serve Globe datasets, but what about using them in ArcMap? Does that require a 3d analyst license? I would hope not, but I don’t know the answer to that because I haven’t had a chance to work with 9.2. Obviously any globe dataset can be view for free in AGX (no license required).
7
mapperz
// Nov 30, 2006 at 10:37 am
It is important to note if you produce a product to cover the globe, you have to support it for all its ‘global users’ of ESRI products including the UK,Canada,Japan.
There is a world outside the USA.
The ‘Point’ made was the ‘G’ in GIS
Geographicial
you cannot have a GIS without location.
It was a simple of the simplest of requests to search for a geographical location. It should not matter were it is in the world.
It’s taken ESRI nearly 10 years to add find X,Y in ArcGIS.
call that progress?
and think how much your paying for the product then the year maintenance
ESRI is too little too late. Most of us have used the software here and we were promised 9.2 in Q1 2006, then Q2,Q3..
We had to move on from that.
So we did.
ArcGIS Explorer does not even support Personal Geodatabases….
Google Wins… wait until Google GIS API arrives..
ESRI Support takes 3 Days at least.
Google emails straight back and gets the ball rolling on solution.
(Your tell us you never had ArcMap crash on you next).
ArcGIS 9.2 crashed twice at the London ESRI Tech update in front of 280 people.
They told us that it was RC2 not the Final Product - it didn’t wash…
8
James Fee
// Nov 30, 2006 at 10:37 am
Oh, I guess I did miss his question.
3D Globe services can be viewed in AGX with no added software.
3D Globe services from ArcGIS Online require ArcGlobe (obviously) and thus require 3D Analyst
ESRI serves up 2D services of all the 3D globes at ArcGIS Online for those who are using ArcMap.
9
James Fee
// Nov 30, 2006 at 10:50 am
Damn right there is and if someone wants to offer up services for that part of the world they can. I fail to see how the demo services that ESRI provides call in to question the goals of AGX as a whole
Right and someone needs to offer up a dataset for people outside the USA. 1M imagery will be offered by ESRI, but only for the US. Yea sucks to be you but the point of AGX isn’t what ESRI is offering but what we as GIS Professionals will offer.
Unless ESRI isn’t serving up placenames for the world or at least addresses for the world. All you did was find fault with the service, not the program as a whole. Don’t confuse the two.
I’ve been asking for years too.
What does that have to do with AGX not finding 10 Downing Street?
Huh? How do you add Personal Geodatabases to Google Earth? You can’t and you sure as hell can’t add Shapefiles to the free GE or even install/use it in a commercial environment. GE is a non-starter in that sense.
At least in the USA, I talk to someone as soon as I call ESRI support. I just did yesterday and had no problem. I can’t speak for ESRI UK.
Believe me I’ve been there, but I don’t think your reasons for giving AGX a failing grade are valid.
Be unhappy with AGX because it doesn’t handle ArcIMS Services very well, doesn’t support ArcSDE/Personal Geodatabases, has trouble with KML, problems with WMS.
I know the AGX team is responding to issues quickly in the forums right now so post about the address problem and see what they say. We know that with ArcGIS Server, to add those addresses wouldn’t be too difficult.
10
Doug
// Nov 30, 2006 at 11:19 am
Anon, I think it has been ESRI’s line (and was openly stated at the UC) that Explorer is not a GE “killer”. GE and MS VE can go have a catfight, Explorer is about being a client to Arc GIS server and exposing the functionality therein.
Mapperz, I was able to find 10 Downing street, London using the “Find Address Task” (10 Downing street is an address).
Click on the Find address task
Select Great Britain, Northern Ireland as your country
Type an address of “10 Downing Street”
Type the city to “London”
Click Find.
You can find the “White House” using the find place task, 10 Downing street is technically an address that is used as a place.
Explorer is about exposing data to clients, most likely private data to private/paying clients. It can also be used to display data publicly, but it doesn’t rely on ESRI hosting data, other people can host their own data and services. If you don’t have data to expose and just want to find locations on the map and look at sattelite imagery then Explorer isn’t the client for you. If you have custom GIS analysis logic and data that shouldn’t be viewed by all (maybe just by people in your department/branch of Gov/company) then Explorer is for you.
GE is a great consumer product. Explorer is a great Business product. They live in and are aimed at two different markets.
11
James Fee
// Nov 30, 2006 at 11:23 am
Doug, I admit I missed that too. I used the Find Place task over the Find Address Task.
Seems logical to me now, but I was drawn to the place task.
12
Doug
// Nov 30, 2006 at 11:24 am
Read my last post to see how to fund 10 Downing St in Explorer
(sorry for the double post)
13
James Fee
// Nov 30, 2006 at 11:25 am
I guess we all get used to the Google method of one search bar to find all.
14
Doug
// Nov 30, 2006 at 11:27 am
If you just enter “Downing Street” into find place it works fine (country set to UK).
Yeah 10 Downing street is kind of weird because it is an address but it is also the “name” of the house. “White house” works fine in find place as would 1600 Pensylvania ave.
Oh for software that unerstands user intentions…
Oh and stuff like this is mostly outside the control of Google/ESRI/MS, it is usually a data thing.
15
James Fee
// Nov 30, 2006 at 11:29 am
/me goes off to create an “I feel lucky” task for AGX.
16
dylan
// Nov 30, 2006 at 11:48 am
we’re currently building agx with custom tools and tight integration with arcgis server (via web services) for a private customer in the US. sure there are hiccups, sure the agx object model is limited, sure the stability is a bit iffy, and boy do i wish agx had a print button! but you know what? it absolutely kicks butt at integrating a ton of imagery and vector data from a very large arcsde database that is not publicly available. oh, and by the way, we are replacing a large commercial installation of google earth with this setup. i’m pretty pragmatic about products in general: used the tool that does what you need with the least amount of complexity and the best bang for the buck. google? agx/arcgis server? i don’t really care as long as the damn thing works for the people who are paying. it’s the same old story IMHO: looking at maps is easy, analyzing a bunch of map data is a lot harder. that’s where esri still has the edge.
17
Chad
// Nov 30, 2006 at 11:50 am
Boy… take all the “fire and brimstone” from the GE fanboys why don’t ya
Now, if only your words would sink through the skull to the brain.
Still can’t wait to see what AGX comes up with to show in January though.
18
Doug
// Nov 30, 2006 at 11:53 am
Chad GE really is a good App. I can understand why people want to compare it to Explorer, but they really do different things, both of them well.
19
cadfg
// Nov 30, 2006 at 12:44 pm
James, you have by far the most credibility out there on this stuff. I don’t want to take anything away from Directions Magazine, but when you speak on issues such as this, it carries a ton of weight with organizations such as ours.
We’ve been following your blog for over a year and the posts you’ve made in the past month are so well thought out from our perspective (as GIS Professionals). The balance you show on subjects like this ArcGIS Explorer really helps us understand the marketplace and how organizations such as ours should fit in it.
20
mark
// Nov 30, 2006 at 12:51 pm
I am very impressed with ArcGIS Explorer. I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the new developments to ArcIMS either (as the last one I worked with was 4). I am interested to know if the pan feature works in real time yet (similar to google maps), or if it’s still required to load every time a new map tile is queried. I currently work with mapxtreme from MapInfo, and see similar issues with it, the public has got used to google maps and demands the same features.
21
James Fee
// Nov 30, 2006 at 12:54 pm
Mark, the new Web ADF has that nice AJAX look and feel that people are used to using with Google Earth. That is the big change with ArcIMS (as well as great new web based admin tools).
22
Jesse L.
// Nov 30, 2006 at 4:21 pm
James, your emphasis on AGX specifically being a client for AGS is a point well taken.
I work for a relatively large-scale non-profit organization that received a HUGE annual donation of ESRI software licenses (which is pretty nice of ESRI really.) BUT, realistically we’re probably not going to be able to implement our own in-house AGS server… Does that mean AGX is going to be worthless to us?
I guess if I just want non-GIS co-workers to be able to view spatial data (shapefiles, rasters, etc.), than I can just use ArcPublisher/ArcReader or I could develop an open source web mapping solution (or, gasp, just print out a map!)
23
Derek
// Dec 1, 2006 at 7:57 am
Man I wish I was apart of the ESRI’s secret club. Too bad I don’t have $30,000 just to use a ridiculous program that you could easily use all of the same features in GE. I agree and am as frustrated as Mapperz. ESRI continues its quest to segregate the users who have some money and companies/government that has millions to throw away at this junk. I’m glad GE and VE are getting into the game. It’s about time for some competition. When I went to “ArcGIS 9.2 on the road” a few months back, I asked if the ArcGIS desktop version would run better than the previous versions. The answer that I got was, “Oh, you’ll have to have ArcGIS Server for this that and everthing else.” I don’t work with terra bytes of information and I could care less about their lame IMS. I really think ESRI caters to those people who think GIS is just like AutoCAD and say stuff like, “your a GIS Wizard.” Wait don’t touch that! That could cause ArcGIS to crash! I’m done.
24
mark
// Dec 1, 2006 at 1:05 pm
Derek, I am not sure what you are using GE for but from my experience you cannot do nearly as much with it as you can with ArcGIS. It sounds like you are new to the GIS world and have a limited knowledge of all that the discipline does. If you are an individual, a thousand dollars for a license may be costly, but for a business this number is not unheard of for software. Unfortunately open source software is still a long way behind companies such as ESRI, MapInfo, and Intergraph; I have yet to see free software do nearly as much as these bundles, nor can the free software render vector as quickly. As for VE or GE taking over the GIS industry, they have a long way to go to tap into the business market, but do provide a starting point for personal users that just want to view pre-made maps.
25
pitix
// Dec 4, 2006 at 10:17 pm
Don’t bug Ed Parsons, he’s leaving the OS. see http://edparsons.com/
26
mapperz
// Dec 5, 2006 at 8:52 am
http://digitalurban.blogspot.com/2006/12/esri-arcgis-explorer-beta-gis-for.html
just another happy? user
no it’s not my blog!
mapperz
http://mapperz.blogspot.com/
27
david lawrence
// Jan 3, 2007 at 2:34 am
firs hi James long time no see. keep up the good work.
It always frustrates me to see so much banter back and forth about GE and ESRI.
I have been a GE AND ESRI user from the early days of keyhole. And you can do some amazing animation based displays that arc scene was not able to do at the time. But on the analytical side GE is not even on the same track at esri. Just admit they are 2 different products that can be used individually or combined to enhance each other.
I recently finished a project where I took data coverage’s from arc map, over laid them into GE created a fly over in the movie maker plug-in and then took that file into final cut, and then aftereffects for the final video product.
Using some of the logic in the arguments on this page I should only had to use one of these tools. To create, analyze, animate, and present my data. That’s an interesting argument but it doesn’t work like that in reality.
So to act as if you can have all the functions of the all the ARC Packages in the free GE they are not there. It is great software but you can’t compare the two.
Be thankful for the tools you have, enhance them expand them with your expertise, and it will stretch the imaginations of the programmers.
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