Comments on: Are We Begining to See a Shift Away From ESRI Server Backend to Open Source Solutions? http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/ Geospatial Technology, Web Mapping and Spatial Services Sun, 01 Aug 2010 01:02:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Tim Maddle http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-23145 Tim Maddle Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:29:16 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-23145 <p>Rie, I'm going to suggest that the answer depends on the complexity of your needs. I'm going to Assume that no Open Source product is going to match Image Server's performance, but I've used MapServer to serve MrSid aerials on a non-production basis and non-aerial tiffs on an in-house production basis.</p> Rie, I’m going to suggest that the answer depends on the complexity of your needs. I’m going to Assume that no Open Source product is going to match Image Server’s performance, but I’ve used MapServer to serve MrSid aerials on a non-production basis and non-aerial tiffs on an in-house production basis.

]]> By: Rie http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-23002 Rie Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:03:20 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-23002 <p>Very interesting and informative comments. Thank you.</p> <p>Does anyone know of a good open source option to ArcGIS Image Server?</p> Very interesting and informative comments. Thank you.

Does anyone know of a good open source option to ArcGIS Image Server?

]]> By: ESRI cancels its books: loss of military contracts to blaim? « ubikcan http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-22292 ESRI cancels its books: loss of military contracts to blaim? « ubikcan Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:33:46 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-22292 <p>[...] me just update with a link to this article from last year “Are we beginning to see a shift away from ESRI Server backend to Open Source [...]</p> [...] me just update with a link to this article from last year “Are we beginning to see a shift away from ESRI Server backend to Open Source [...]

]]> By: Ishan http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-14081 Ishan Sun, 10 Jun 2007 06:15:02 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-14081 <p>We've been delivering web based GIS apps with the support of ESRI ArcGIS family suite. But now for the next project we dont want our client to be put in so much cost of ESRI. We want to deliver him cost effective solution and one which is compitible with .net. His project doesnt require much of the functionalities that ESRI provide. So, we're looking for the options available except ESRI. Where we can look for?</p> <p>What do u suggest? Your suggestion will be worth a million. It will be great if anybody can provide the comparitive details of options available OTHER THAN ESRI.</p> <p>Thanks a Lot,</p> We’ve been delivering web based GIS apps with the support of ESRI ArcGIS
family suite. But now for the next project we dont want our client to be
put in so much cost of ESRI. We want to deliver him cost effective solution
and one which is compitible with .net. His project doesnt require much
of
the functionalities that ESRI provide. So, we’re looking for the options
available except ESRI. Where we can look for?

What do u suggest? Your suggestion will be worth a million. It will be great if anybody can provide the comparitive details of options available OTHER THAN ESRI.

Thanks a Lot,

]]> By: Ryan Cox http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2455 Ryan Cox Mon, 11 Dec 2006 10:46:36 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2455 <p>Perhaps I can offer a bit of insight, the obvious or a perspective to remind those professionals who posted above. I'd like to share a "fresh" opinion or prediction on the ESRI/Open Source "phenomena" taking place. I'm a GIS undergrad student and my generation knows nothing but ever-changng technology and for the same reason Microsoft made great strides for PC's, ESRI entered a market with very similar demands. You'll understand this and much more then I do, GIS that is but after semesters' of ESRI training, I still project my shapefiles in Adobe on a Macintosh and Linux will most likely provide faster accessability for satellites and open source. ESRI to me is remarkable software but it might be living out its legacy.</p> Perhaps I can offer a bit of insight, the obvious or a perspective to remind those professionals who posted above. I’d like to share a “fresh” opinion or prediction on the ESRI/Open Source “phenomena” taking place. I’m a GIS undergrad student and my generation knows nothing but ever-changng technology and for the same reason Microsoft made great strides for PC’s, ESRI entered a market with very similar demands. You’ll understand this and much more then I do, GIS that is but after semesters’ of ESRI training, I still project my shapefiles in Adobe on a Macintosh and Linux will most likely provide faster accessability for satellites and open source. ESRI to me is remarkable software but it might be living out its legacy.

]]> By: James Fee http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2454 James Fee Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:09:23 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2454 <p>Backend would mean the servers. For ESRI that would mean; ArcSDE, ArcIMS and ArcGIS Server. The front end would be the clients; ArcMap/ArcCatalog, ArcReader, ArcGIS Explorer, ArcExplorer, ArcPad and some would say web based front ends too such as the Web ADF or the classic HTML viewer for ArcIMS.</p> Backend would mean the servers. For ESRI that would mean; ArcSDE, ArcIMS and ArcGIS Server. The front end would be the clients; ArcMap/ArcCatalog, ArcReader, ArcGIS Explorer, ArcExplorer, ArcPad and some would say web based front ends too such as the Web ADF or the classic HTML viewer for ArcIMS.

]]> By: mehran http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2453 mehran Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:01:35 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2453 <p>dear:</p> <p>i am majid mousavi.student of watershed management in iran. your information about gis was very interesting for me and rise alote question about gis. please help me . 1):what does backend means in gis 2):what does frontend means in gis</p> <p>sincerely yours</p> dear:

i am majid mousavi.student of watershed management
in iran.
your information about gis was very interesting for me and rise alote question
about gis. please help me .
1):what does backend means in gis
2):what does frontend means in gis

sincerely yours

]]> By: Paolo Corti http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2452 Paolo Corti Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:18:42 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2452 <p>I was wrong to say in my previous comment that there is not a direct way to let ArcMap direct read/edit PostGis. After deep investigating i realized that there can be 3 approaches for reading custom data: 1) Custom Layers 2) Plug in data sources 3) OGIS compliant OLE DB providers</p> <p>With custom layers edit is possible but you have to implement a custom edit tool. With Plug in data source you can only read custom data, but it has the nicest integration with ArcCatalog With OGIS OLE DB read/write is possible, but could be actually implemented only with ATL c++</p> I was wrong to say in my previous comment that there is not a direct way to let ArcMap direct read/edit PostGis.
After deep investigating i realized that there can be 3 approaches for reading custom data:
1) Custom Layers
2) Plug in data sources
3) OGIS compliant OLE DB providers

With custom layers edit is possible but you have to implement a custom edit tool.
With Plug in data source you can only read custom data, but it has the nicest integration with ArcCatalog
With OGIS OLE DB read/write is possible, but could be actually implemented only with ATL c++

]]> By: Simon http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2451 Simon Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:25:02 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2451 <p>Paul,</p> <p>Regarding your remark that ESRI radically change direction every few years.... they are a software company and I think most s/ware technology shifts every 3-5 years regardless of the specific app. This does cause problems with backwards compat. etc. but overall I think moving a technology base forward is the correct thing to do... now the question would be has ESRI moved in the right direction? it would seem reading this blog no -</p> <p>It will be interesting to see if ESRI moves towards Open Source, but I imagine they will wait and see how Autodesk's venture pans out.</p> <p>Interesting thread for sure</p> Paul,

Regarding your remark that ESRI radically change direction every few years…. they are a software company and I think most s/ware technology shifts every 3-5 years regardless of the specific app. This does cause problems with backwards compat. etc. but overall I think moving a technology base forward is the correct thing to do… now the question would be has ESRI moved in the right direction? it would seem reading this blog no -

It will be interesting to see if ESRI moves towards Open Source, but I imagine they will wait and see how Autodesk’s venture pans out.

Interesting thread for sure

]]> By: Community Participation in MapGuide Open Source at James Fee GIS Blog http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2450 Community Participation in MapGuide Open Source at James Fee GIS Blog Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:58:07 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2450 <p>[...] I’ve been getting more and more .NET developers talking to me about my MapGuide Open Source move over the holiday. Seems like many ArcIMS developers are downloading and checking out MapGuide, trying to get away from the ArcGIS Server/Desktop conflict (they have to develop on 9.1, but their IT department wants to roll out 9.2). I’ve said this before, but every day I get more and more ESRI developers asking me for directions on how augment their toolbox with open source. Personally I’m beginning to see the power behind hit and the .NET integration is welcome. After my initial battle with PHP, I’m running very well and at least on this laptop MapGuide Open Source and AJAX Tile viewer. It seems to run faster than ArcIMS 9.2 and the Web ADF on my laptop, but I’ll be honest that isn’t a scientific observation. [...]</p> [...] I&#8217;ve been getting more and more .NET developers talking to me about my MapGuide Open Source move over the holiday. Seems like many ArcIMS developers are downloading and checking out MapGuide, trying to get away from the ArcGIS Server/Desktop conflict (they have to develop on 9.1, but their IT department wants to roll out 9.2). I&#8217;ve said this before, but every day I get more and more ESRI developers asking me for directions on how augment their toolbox with open source. Personally I&#8217;m beginning to see the power behind hit and the .NET integration is welcome. After my initial battle with PHP, I&#8217;m running very well and at least on this laptop MapGuide Open Source and AJAX Tile viewer. It seems to run faster than ArcIMS 9.2 and the Web ADF on my laptop, but I&#8217;ll be honest that isn&#8217;t a scientific observation. [...]

]]> By: Jano http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2449 Jano Sun, 29 Oct 2006 00:19:58 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2449 <p>sorry correct link is http://www.bnhelp.cz/mapserv/wpsdemo</p> sorry correct link is
http://www.bnhelp.cz/mapserv/wpsdemo

]]> By: Jano http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2448 Jano Sun, 29 Oct 2006 00:18:16 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2448 <p>Related to AGS and it's distributed geoprocessing models....i really think that OS GIS is already there and doing it wery well -> http://bnhelp.cz/mapserv/wpsdemo I would really like to see this speed on AGS + ArcIMS. And i believe that in the moment when GRASS GIS will have complete python bindings more and more people are going to use it. Why?...it is better and is free I just wish good luck to Jack but the times are changing...</p> Related to AGS and it’s distributed geoprocessing models….i really think that OS GIS is already there and doing it wery well -&gt; http://bnhelp.cz/mapserv/wpsdemo
I would really like to see this speed on AGS + ArcIMS. And i believe that in the moment when GRASS GIS will have complete python bindings more and more people are going to use it. Why?…it is better and is free
I just wish good luck to Jack but the times are changing…

]]> By: Datum Shift http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2447 Datum Shift Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:01:59 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2447 <p><strong>The Blog...</strong></p> <p>I’ve been reading about the ArcGIS 9.2 release and some of the new features with puzzlement. The only need for our group is faster servers, not more features. There seems to be nothing in the new release that will address our needs so what to d...</p> The Blog…

I&#8217;ve been reading about the ArcGIS 9.2 release and some of the new features with puzzlement. The only need for our group is faster servers, not more features. There seems to be nothing in the new release that will address our needs so what to d…

]]> By: Are the big guys squaring up? &laquo; Computing, GIS and Archaeology in the UK http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2446 Are the big guys squaring up? &laquo; Computing, GIS and Archaeology in the UK Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:48:39 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2446 <p>[...] Personally, I can’t decide if the big guys are squaring up for an opensource fight, or if we’re just seeing much more involvement in the opensource movement. Following on from the recent discussion about the use of opensource alternatives to ESRI’s main product lines, and further back, ESRI’s decision to include support for PostgreSQL as a database, hopefully this is all a sign of a gathering momentum. At first I thought this 52 North initiative was a bad thing- a dilution of focus, but maybe it’s just a sign that the snowball’s getting that bit bigger. More products, and some healthy competition has to be good, right? [...]</p> [...] Personally, I can&#8217;t decide if the big guys are squaring up for an opensource fight, or if we&#8217;re just seeing much more involvement in the opensource movement. Following on from the recent discussion about the use of opensource alternatives to ESRI&#8217;s main product lines, and further back, ESRI&#8217;s decision to include support for PostgreSQL as a database, hopefully this is all a sign of a gathering momentum. At first I thought this 52 North initiative was a bad thing- a dilution of focus, but maybe it&#8217;s just a sign that the snowball&#8217;s getting that bit bigger. More products, and some healthy competition has to be good, right? [...]

]]> By: Gwyon http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2445 Gwyon Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:38:36 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2445 <p>all in all the shift you worry about would only go to no-cost software. the open-source/free software paradigm doesn't play a role in that decision. ogc-support may be another reason but doesn't have to.</p> all in all the shift you worry about would only go to no-cost software. the open-source/free software paradigm doesn’t play a role in that decision. ogc-support may be another reason but doesn’t have to.

]]> By: The Memory Leak &#187; Blog Archive &#187; ArcGIS Server Pricing http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2444 The Memory Leak &#187; Blog Archive &#187; ArcGIS Server Pricing Fri, 13 Oct 2006 02:59:28 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2444 <p>[...] James Fee’s report of a shift from ESRI to Open Source for GIS server technology has stirred up some interesting discussion. [...]</p> [...] James Fee&#8217;s report of a shift from ESRI to Open Source for GIS server technology has stirred up some interesting discussion. [...]

]]> By: Joseph Wallis http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2443 Joseph Wallis Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:43:45 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2443 <p>sounds like you are talking to all the ticked off ESRI BPs whose map apis because obsolete/redundant with AGS 9.2. I've had one of those BPs trying to tie me into their proprietary API and I just didnt bite.</p> sounds like you are talking to all the ticked off ESRI BPs whose map apis because obsolete/redundant with AGS 9.2. I’ve had one of those BPs trying to tie me into their proprietary API and I just didnt bite.

]]> By: EJD http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2442 EJD Thu, 12 Oct 2006 18:25:58 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2442 <p>Jonathan,</p> <p>I agree with your enthusiasm for the concept of distributed Geoprocessing Models, but anyone who attended the ESRI conference a few months ago can attest, at least in my opinion, that it will be a while before the technology reaches maturity. In nearly every example I saw of this, it was LAN-only and very simple analysis (a single point buffer, followed by a selection, and an attribute report of selected features, for example).</p> <p>The overall idea is exciting, but I would caution one from consuming too much of the ole ESRI cool aid just yet. If they can drop the price of AGS by 75% and increase speed by 3 or 4 fold, then we'll be talking. Oh and reliability I'm sure won't be perfect either this first release, so it'll probably be AGS 9.3 before the kinks are worked out.</p> Jonathan,

I agree with your enthusiasm for the concept of distributed Geoprocessing Models, but anyone who attended the ESRI conference a few months ago can attest, at least in my opinion, that it will be a while before the technology reaches maturity. In nearly every example I saw of this, it was LAN-only and very simple analysis (a single point buffer, followed by a selection, and an attribute report of selected features, for example).

The overall idea is exciting, but I would caution one from consuming too much of the ole ESRI cool aid just yet. If they can drop the price of AGS by 75% and increase speed by 3 or 4 fold, then we’ll be talking. Oh and reliability I’m sure won’t be perfect either this first release, so it’ll probably be AGS 9.3 before the kinks are worked out.

]]> By: matt wilkie http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2441 matt wilkie Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:27:19 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2441 <p>>I can’t see how developing an extension format for ArcGIS can be that hard.</p> <p>might be possible with 9.2, since esri now uses GDAL: http://tinyurl.com/gwac9 "ArcGIS 9.2 has adopted the Geospatial Data Abstract Library (GDAL) and supports adding custom formats through the GDAL format driver." and even links to the gdal driver tutorial.</p> <p>no word about using OGR for vector access tho'.</p> &gt;I can’t see how developing an extension format for ArcGIS can be that hard.

might be possible with 9.2, since esri now uses GDAL:
http://tinyurl.com/gwac9 “ArcGIS 9.2 has adopted the Geospatial
Data Abstract Library (GDAL) and supports adding custom formats through
the GDAL format driver.” and even links to the gdal driver tutorial.

no word about using OGR for vector access tho’.

]]> By: Stef http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/10/09/are-we-begining-to-see-a-shift-away-from-esri-server-backend-to-open-source-solutions/#comment-2440 Stef Thu, 12 Oct 2006 05:22:48 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=1048#comment-2440 <p>Hmm, guess for the IMS part this is true. At least for us as an international organization we always preferred using OpenSource like Mapserver and PostGIS, although ESRI products were almost free for us. But ArcIMS was always slow and heavy...</p> <p>On the other side we are now thinking about putting all of our data into a database and accessing it via a single interface - and the impression we have is that there is hardly any way around ArcSDE. Or am I mistaken there? We use ArcGIS a lot for DesktopGIS, as well as ArcView and ERDAS...</p> Hmm, guess for the IMS part this is true. At least for us as an international organization we always preferred using OpenSource like Mapserver and PostGIS, although ESRI products were almost free for us. But ArcIMS was always slow and heavy…

On the other side we are now thinking about putting all of our data into a database and accessing it via a single interface – and the impression we have is that there is hardly any way around ArcSDE. Or am I mistaken there? We use ArcGIS a lot for DesktopGIS, as well as ArcView and ERDAS…

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