Comments on: Yea, I’m Looking at “Mapserver Enterprise” http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/ Geospatial Technology, Web Mapping and Spatial Services Sun, 01 Aug 2010 01:02:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Will http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-800 Will Fri, 12 May 2006 18:49:06 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-800 <p>Manifold simply rocks. I've been using it for 4 years now and I have got to say that their development cycle and their response to users' requests is simply amazing. Version 7 is due out quite soon. Despite it being a serious upgrade, it is free to current users of 6.50. There is a brief writeup of it (by a Cornell professor who teaches it in his courses) on Directions Magazine http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2170&trv=1</p> Manifold simply rocks. I’ve been using it for 4 years now and I have got to say that their development cycle and their response to users’ requests is simply amazing. Version 7 is due out quite soon. Despite it being a serious upgrade, it is free to current users of 6.50. There is a brief writeup of it (by a Cornell professor who teaches it in his courses) on Directions Magazine http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2170&#38;trv=1

]]> By: James Masek http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-799 James Masek Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:58:45 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-799 <p>Maybe you are all not using the latest version. They always tell me to use latest version. WE are now on 9.2 Beta 2. Guess waht it still does not work. You are the support. You are the tester. The money you pay ESRI goes to fill Jack's Pockets</p> Maybe you are all not using the latest version. They always tell me to use latest version. WE are now on 9.2 Beta 2. Guess waht it still does not work. You are the support. You are the tester. The money you pay ESRI goes to fill Jack’s Pockets

]]> By: tired of esri http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-798 tired of esri Mon, 03 Apr 2006 17:03:09 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-798 <p>Three words: Manifold, Manifold, Manifold. We made the switch last year and haven't looked back. The product is great, very affordable, and more modern than ESRI. There is a great community of users who are enormously helpful, and some 3rd party training has popped up. For $245 you get a full fledged GIS (with all the topology tools), and an IMS. Plus, its all integrated into Microsoft, so it talks well with other applications.</p> Three words: Manifold, Manifold, Manifold. We made the switch last year and haven’t looked back. The product is great, very affordable, and more modern than ESRI. There is a great community of users who are enormously helpful, and some 3rd party training has popped up. For $245 you get a full fledged GIS (with all the topology tools), and an IMS. Plus, its all integrated into Microsoft, so it talks well with other applications.

]]> By: Digital Earth Weblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Providing Feedback to Vendors http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-797 Digital Earth Weblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Providing Feedback to Vendors Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:20:56 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-797 <p>[...] The deluge of comments about ESRI support that hijacked James Fee’s MapServer Enterprise post brought back memories of OZRI. I heard several animated conversations among delegates complaining about technical support, and value for maintenance dollars. [...]</p> [...] The deluge of comments about ESRI support that hijacked James Fee&#8217;s MapServer Enterprise post brought back memories of OZRI. I heard several animated conversations among delegates complaining about technical support, and value for maintenance dollars. [...]

]]> By: Dave Smith http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-796 Dave Smith Fri, 23 Dec 2005 18:04:55 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-796 <p>I just came across this thread and I have to disagree to an extent- Recently we were dealing with some issues involving developing a WFS service atop a legacy Oracle application. We were trying to make the data residing inside the application and associated databases available to EPA GIS analysts in support of Hurricane Katrina response and remediation. The problem we had involved GML formatting and schemas for use in Data Interoperability Extension- We found Vasu and the others at ESRI to be extremely responsive and helpful, and they also put us in touch with their counterparts at Safe Software, to help resolve some of the technical issues we had. The application was deployed within a few days.</p> I just came across this thread and I have to disagree to an extent- Recently we were dealing with some issues involving developing a WFS service atop a legacy Oracle application. We were trying to make the data residing inside the application and associated databases available to EPA GIS analysts in support of Hurricane Katrina response and remediation. The problem we had involved GML formatting and schemas for use in Data Interoperability Extension- We found Vasu and the others at ESRI to be extremely responsive and helpful, and they also put us in touch with their counterparts at Safe Software, to help resolve some of the technical issues we had. The application was deployed within a few days.

]]> By: Brian Sims http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-795 Brian Sims Sat, 17 Dec 2005 16:50:46 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-795 <p>I would really like a 24 hour service. Wednesday night I was up at 2:00 AM trying to resolve a problem that occurred when creating a new ArcIMS Web Service on a production machine. Tech support closed hours ago and would not open for several more hours; well after my users would be back in the office and trying to use a system that was down. Being able to call a 24 hour support line would have been nice.</p> <p>Luckily I was able to fix things before people started showing up to work, but only after staying up most of the night.</p> I would really like a 24 hour service. Wednesday night I was up at 2:00 AM trying to resolve a problem that occurred when creating a new ArcIMS Web Service on a production machine. Tech support closed hours ago and would not open for several more hours; well after my users would be back in the office and trying to use a system that was down. Being able to call a 24 hour support line would have been nice.

Luckily I was able to fix things before people started showing up to work, but only after staying up most of the night.

]]> By: ou812 http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-794 ou812 Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:43:17 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-794 <p>At first I was angry when i got our EDN and saw what it really was. But if you treat it as a way to get development licenses of software it really isn't too bad. I think the name confuses people more than anything.</p> <p>I can't say I'm unhappy with ESRI. I've had some issues in the last year, but nothing to get too worked up about. I do think support isn't as good as it used to be, but it isn't useless as others have said.</p> At first I was angry when i got our EDN and saw what it really was. But if you treat it as a way to get development licenses of software it really isn’t too bad. I think the name confuses people more than anything.

I can’t say I’m unhappy with ESRI. I’ve had some issues in the last year, but nothing to get too worked up about. I do think support isn’t as good as it used to be, but it isn’t useless as others have said.

]]> By: Dylan Beaudette http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-793 Dylan Beaudette Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:35:06 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-793 <p>I think that some posts in this thread illustrate the mindset and general nature of the brainwashed, GIS ==ESRI crowd (Kristina Howard seems to be the the poster child in this case). How can you expect much of a "community" from a company like ESRI? Its akin expecting a community to form around wallmart, or costco. I find it rather offensive that huge sums of tax payer money are directly siphoned into ESRI's pockets- without this side benefits of a stellar product or technical support. As was mentioned up thread - if you want to see active, and more importantly <em>prouductive</em> developer communites check out those for Mapserver, GRASS, QGIS, and the R-Project , just to name a few.</p> I think that some posts in this thread illustrate the mindset and general nature of the brainwashed, GIS ==ESRI crowd (Kristina Howard seems to be the the poster child in this case). How can you expect much of a “community” from a company like ESRI? Its akin expecting a community to form around wallmart, or costco. I find it rather offensive that huge sums of tax payer money are directly siphoned into ESRI’s pockets- without this side benefits of a stellar product or technical support. As was mentioned up thread – if you want to see active, and more importantly prouductive developer communites check out those for Mapserver, GRASS, QGIS, and the R-Project , just to name a few.

]]> By: Dave Bouwman http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-792 Dave Bouwman Fri, 16 Dec 2005 20:30:47 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-792 <p>My thoughts:</p> <p><b>ArcObjects</b> First off, I'm glad I have a system like ArcObjects to work with. Sure it's got it's issues, but really, it's got a whole lot more functionality in there than anything else out there. Not to say that the open source gang is not catching up in terms of functional GIS, but there are not even close to a unified COM/.NET/Java API like ArcObjects. And some support issues are not going to make me think twice about choosing another platform. That said, we are consultants, so if the end users change, we will follow.</p> <p><b>ERSI Developer Network</b> As far as EDN goes, it's a godsend for consulting groups like ours. We typically have 2-3 medium size projects and one big kahuna project in the office. To support this sort of development, we need to have 3 or 4 SDE's, running with different platforms and versions, multiple ArcIMS's and multiple ArcGIS Servers. For the price, it's the best deal for us. The only thing I'd like added to it would be developer versions of Desktop - it's not like we do any production "gis" work, but it would be nice to not have to pay for full seats when they are just used by our clients to test the apps via Citrix prior to deployment.</p> <p><b>ESRI Developer Support</b> My only real beef with ESRI support is that without going to DSG, the only "developer support" is for VBA. And the last time I looked into it DGS was a little spendy for what usually results in "Yes, you have found bug CQ394849". What would be really helpful would be to able to search the known bugs list from your EDN account. I realize that no company wants to air their dirty laundry (or dirty code in this case), but it would be one way to placate a lot of developers. This may also cut down on the support load, as many times people can find the known issue, add their 2 cents to it, and never interact with the support staff - leaving them able to deal with solvable problems.</p> My thoughts:

ArcObjects
First off, I’m glad I have a system like ArcObjects to work with. Sure it’s got it’s issues, but really, it’s got a whole lot more functionality in there than anything else out there. Not to say that the open source gang is not catching up in terms of functional GIS, but there are not even close to a unified COM/.NET/Java API like ArcObjects. And some support issues are not going to make me think twice about choosing another platform. That said, we are consultants, so if the end users change, we will follow.

ERSI Developer Network
As far as EDN goes, it’s a godsend for consulting groups like ours. We typically have 2-3 medium size projects and one big kahuna project in the office. To support this sort of development, we need to have 3 or 4 SDE’s, running with different platforms and versions, multiple ArcIMS’s and multiple ArcGIS Servers. For the price, it’s the best deal for us. The only thing I’d like added to it would be developer versions of Desktop – it’s not like we do any production “gis” work, but it would be nice to not have to pay for full seats when they are just used by our clients to test the apps via Citrix prior to deployment.

ESRI Developer Support
My only real beef with ESRI support is that without going to DSG, the only “developer support” is for VBA. And the last time I looked into it DGS was a little spendy for what usually results in “Yes, you have found bug CQ394849″. What would be really helpful would be to able to search the known bugs list from your EDN account. I realize that no company wants to air their dirty laundry (or dirty code in this case), but it would be one way to placate a lot of developers. This may also cut down on the support load, as many times people can find the known issue, add their 2 cents to it, and never interact with the support staff – leaving them able to deal with solvable problems.

]]> By: GeoMullah http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-791 GeoMullah Fri, 16 Dec 2005 03:55:23 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-791 <p>"You guys should just use open source. Screw proprietary software!"—Left by ArcView User on December 15th, 2005</p> <p>This had to be posted by OGC!</p> “You guys should just use open source. Screw proprietary software!”—Left by ArcView User on December 15th, 2005

This had to be posted by OGC!

]]> By: Mike C http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-790 Mike C Fri, 16 Dec 2005 02:18:28 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-790 <p>ESRI support is extremely poor. When we call we get one of the standard answers usually after a week or two of waiting.</p> <ol> <li><p>I’m sorry we can’t reproduce the problem you and others on the forums mention so we’ll have to close the ticket.</p></li> <li><p>Unfortunately, this is a known bug logged as CQ0999876587 with no work around. Would you like me to log your comments and close the incident?</p></li> <li><p>This functionality is not available in ArcWhatever would you like me to log this as an enhancement request for our developers?</p></li> </ol> <p>For #2 and #3 I have incidents over 2 and half years old with no answer. ESRI support is a horrible and cruel joke. I do want to say I’ve had some helpful ESRI staff that stuck through with me on some problems but once we reached the “wall” of passing it to the ESRI developers, we were done making progress.</p> <p>On paper our GIS section is a 100% ESRI shop with our yearly maintenance to ESRI being well over six figures. In the real world we are evaluating Mapserver and the newly released “MapServer Enterprise “Tux”” along with working with Oracle Spatial to eliminate ArcIMS and ArcSDE and just retain ArcGIS Desktop.</p> <p>Jack needs to read these posts and understand his users frustration because ESRI is no longer the only GIS show in town and my CIO will have no problem following my recommendations that have Autodesk and Oracle in them.</p> <p>And as for the people that are saying how dare you badmouth ESRI support they should look at the number of posts and realize this has touched a raw nerve with many customers. They should thank you for exposing it, so if ESRI chooses they can treat their customers better before they leave.</p> ESRI support is extremely poor. When we call we get one of the standard answers usually after a week or two of waiting.

  1. I’m sorry we can’t reproduce the problem you and others on the forums mention so we’ll have to close the ticket.

  2. Unfortunately, this is a known bug logged as CQ0999876587 with no work around. Would you like me to log your comments and close the incident?

  3. This functionality is not available in ArcWhatever would you like me to log this as an enhancement request for our developers?

For #2 and #3 I have incidents over 2 and half years old with no answer. ESRI support is a horrible and cruel joke. I do want to say I’ve had some helpful ESRI staff that stuck through with me on some problems but once we reached the “wall” of passing it to the ESRI developers, we were done making progress.

On paper our GIS section is a 100% ESRI shop with our yearly maintenance to ESRI being well over six figures. In the real world we are evaluating Mapserver and the newly released “MapServer Enterprise “Tux”” along with working with Oracle Spatial to eliminate ArcIMS and ArcSDE and just retain ArcGIS Desktop.

Jack needs to read these posts and understand his users frustration because ESRI is no longer the only GIS show in town and my CIO will have no problem following my recommendations that have Autodesk and Oracle in them.

And as for the people that are saying how dare you badmouth ESRI support they should look at the number of posts and realize this has touched a raw nerve with many customers. They should thank you for exposing it, so if ESRI chooses they can treat their customers better before they leave.

]]> By: Lindy Jones http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-789 Lindy Jones Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:41:16 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-789 <p>Glad to hear you are still able to use ESRI products. I can't believe how large this thread has gotten and how many people read you blog.</p> Glad to hear you are still able to use ESRI products. I can’t believe how large this thread has gotten and how many people read you blog.

]]> By: James Fee http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-788 James Fee Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:19:38 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-788 <p>Guys. I did not get banned, or reprimanded or frozen out of anything (at least that I know of).</p> <p>I can still log into EDN and no ESRI employee I've talked to today has said anything about be being on a blacklist. I'll still post about ArcGIS Explorer, ArcWeb and anything else interesting ESRI releases.</p> <p>Lets not get carried away here and start rumors that have no basis of fact. This isn't a soap opera.</p> Guys. I did not get banned, or reprimanded or frozen out of anything (at least that I know of).

I can still log into EDN and no ESRI employee I’ve talked to today has said anything about be being on a blacklist. I’ll still post about ArcGIS Explorer, ArcWeb and anything else interesting ESRI releases.

Lets not get carried away here and start rumors that have no basis of fact. This isn’t a soap opera.

]]> By: Morgan Smith http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-787 Morgan Smith Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:08:57 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-787 <p>Wow, ESRI banned James from their site. I'm shocked and saddened.</p> Wow, ESRI banned James from their site. I’m shocked and saddened.

]]> By: Gerald Lettiere http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-786 Gerald Lettiere Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:06:46 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-786 <p>I'm not surprised. We've got 80 posts pretty much calling ESRI out. I've seen no ESRI employee blog about this so I can only assume they are freezing him out.</p> <p>Too bad because I was looking forward to learning more about ArcGIS Explorer and ArcWeb Explorer. Guess that won't happen now.</p> I’m not surprised. We’ve got 80 posts pretty much calling ESRI out. I’ve seen no ESRI employee blog about this so I can only assume they are freezing him out.

Too bad because I was looking forward to learning more about ArcGIS Explorer and ArcWeb Explorer. Guess that won’t happen now.

]]> By: Mike Harper http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-785 Mike Harper Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:04:37 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-785 <p>ESRI banned James? Why, he didn't do anything wrong.</p> <p>You're OK in my book.</p> ESRI banned James? Why, he didn’t do anything wrong.

You’re OK in my book.

]]> By: .NET Dev http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-784 .NET Dev Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:03:26 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-784 <p>Sad to hear you've been banned from EDN James. I've always thought you've been a great resource to the GIS community.</p> Sad to hear you’ve been banned from EDN James. I’ve always thought you’ve been a great resource to the GIS community.

]]> By: Tim Patterson http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-783 Tim Patterson Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:55:51 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-783 <p>So I guess they are going to freeze you out James.</p> So I guess they are going to freeze you out James.

]]> By: Kristina Howard http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-782 Kristina Howard Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:40:48 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-782 <p>Ha, see ESRI did remove you from the EDN site.</p> <p>http://edn.esri.com/index.cfm?fa=uc.gateway</p> Ha, see ESRI did remove you from the EDN site.

http://edn.esri.com/index.cfm?fa=uc.gateway

]]> By: James Fee http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2005/12/14/yea-im-looking-at-mapserver-enterprise/#comment-781 James Fee Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:13:14 +0000 http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=439#comment-781 <p>Sure, I'd love to have another meetup for the Business Partner Conference. When we get closer to the time we can all figure out what works.</p> Sure, I’d love to have another meetup for the Business Partner Conference. When we get closer to the time we can all figure out what works.

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